The prestigious German weekly Der Spiegel called him the most famous Ukrainian in the world after President Volodymyr Zelensky. In an open and personal interview for Aktuálně.cz, journalist Ilja Ponomarenko explains what victory means to him, or describes how he got his mother to safety in the hectic first days of the war.
Ponomarenko comes from Donbass and started writing about the war long before the fateful February 24, 2022. More than 1.2 million people from all over the world are mediating it up close, who follow him on the X social network (formerly Twitter). In the interview, she emphasizes that she is unbeatable for the Russian ruler Vladimir Putin. “For me, it is a victory that Ukraine remains a sovereign, independent democratic state that is moving closer to the West,” he says, but admits that the situation on the front is not good.
The Ukrainian reporter describes how difficult it is for him to see the destroyed and occupied hometown of Volnovacha or the burned Mariupol, where he studied. But he also evaluates the essential role of the Czech Republic in helping his country. He describes the Czech initiative to buy artillery ammunition as colossal and compares it to a situation where you are dying of thirst and someone offers you water. “President Petr Pavel is the most popular foreign leader in Ukraine,” he says in one of the cafes in the center of Kyiv, where he gave an interview to Aktuálně.cz.
On the first day of the invasion, you wrote: “See you in victorious Ukraine.” Do you believe it even now, when the situation at the front is not good and the Russians have the upper hand?
Of course. It was not exaggerated talk, I was emotionally prepared for the invasion. We knew that the Russians would attack and we suspected that it would happen on the very night of February 24, 2022. It was clear to me from the beginning that this would be a war that the Russians could not win. Yes, they can defeat the Ukrainian army, they can occupy most if not all of our country, but even if that happens, it will still be a long, bloody, unwinnable war for them, because in that case we would be fighting them in a guerilla way.
I expected the war for Ukraine to take a turn for the worse. I suspected that the Russians would have to sacrifice an insane amount of resources and find themselves in international isolation. That they will occupy Ukraine and the war for them will be ten times worse than the one in Vietnam for the Americans, so in the end they will have to leave it anyway, because it is not going to be won.
If you say Russia can’t win, what will Ukrainian victory look like?
Many people are upset by Zelenskyi and the government when they claim that the army will liberate one hundred percent of the territory and Ukraine will return to the borders of 1991. But that is exactly what they are supposed to say. The president of a country in a state of war must claim total victory. If it wasn’t, it would spell the end for him. But I am not Zelenskyi or the government, so I can say that in the current situation it is a victory for me that Ukraine remains a sovereign, independent democratic state that is moving closer to the West. Our survival is a victory, because this war is about the liquidation of Ukraine as a nation. I will help myself with a parallel: Someone attacks you with a knife with the intention of killing you, cutting off your head, and you manage to survive, you are badly injured, you are bleeding, you may lose a leg, but you will still live on. Does that count as a win?
I think yes.
As I pointed out, Ukraine survived, which can be considered a victory. The problem is that we can’t say that we are winning because the tendencies at the front are not very good. For now, I would describe the current situation as Ukraine is still fighting and waging an extremely difficult war. At the time when I wrote that we would meet in a victorious Ukraine, I did not even expect that we would get this far. The fight continues and is far from over.
You grew up in the Donbass in today’s occupied Volnovaš and studied in Mariupol. How difficult is it for you to see both cities destroyed by the Russian army?
It’s one of the worst things that could have happened. Volnovacha practically does not exist, it is leveled with the ground. And Mariupol… But you know what tragedy befell him. It is about your personal life, not only about you as a journalist and a citizen of Ukraine, but also about your friends, parents, places you loved in your youth and of which you have fond memories. To see the bookstore where I worked or the dorms where I lived completely devastated is something terrible. And then there are the fates of people. I don’t know what happened to my loved ones from Mariupol, to ex-girlfriends, friends from abroad, professors from the university.
Thirty-two-year-old Ponomarenko got into journalism by accident. While he was studying international relations at the University of Mariupol, the Donbas war broke out in 2014 and his city became one of the main targets of pro-Russian separatists. During the fierce fighting, he responded to an appeal by the BBC, which was looking for witnesses to the events at the time, and subsequently filmed several live entries for the British station. “I was crazy curious about what was going on and I was very interested in the media. So I gave it a try,” he smiles.
He moved to Kyiv in May 2016 and joined the newly founded newspaper The Kyiv Independent just before the Russian invasion. He gradually fell in love with the Ukrainian metropolis, which is best seen when he starts talking about his new book, which was published on Tuesday. “Originally I thought it would be a classic military job with all the graphic maps, drawings and lines of attack, but then I realized that others could do it for me much better,” he explains. He therefore preferred to write a book about the heroism of the city and its inhabitants during the siege by the Russian army.
“It is also a kind of love letter to today’s Kyiv, which explains to readers what kind of city it is, why Vladimir Putin cares about it so much and what enormous historical significance it has,” he describes. The English-written book was eventually given the title I’ll show you how it was: The story of wartime Kiev. Immediately after its release, it became a bestseller on the American online store Amazon.
Photo: Ilya Ponomarenko / X.com
Mariupol is occupied by the Russian army from May 2022. Do you have any news from there?
Fortunately, most people I know managed to escape. In the summer of 2021, I set off from Kyiv with a friend on such a road trip through Ukraine, and the destination of our trip was Mariupol. We wanted to meet old friends there. It was such a great city back then, I’d say it was in the best shape it’s ever been in. Mariupol went up terribly, it was clean, full of cafes, businesses, the entire coast of the Sea of Azov had perfect transport connections. I was actually surprised at how amazing the place was. And now it lies in ruins.
We generally know what is happening in Mariupol now. Russians make a lot of money renovating, building houses and selling new apartments to Russian citizens who come from inside Russia. But we still don’t know how many people died there. Probably tens of thousands of dead. All those satellite images of mass graves… It’s a terrible tragedy. The city we knew basically no longer exists. The Russians sucked the life out of him.
I am not doing this for money, but for my country
Did you ever think you would have over 1.2 million Twitter followers?
No, definitely not. I never really liked social networks, I wasn’t good at them even during my studies.
I don’t really believe you.
The fact that I have 1.2 million followers on Twitter is just a coincidence. It happened because of the war. It’s not because I’m such an interesting person, it’s because of my profession and the historical events that are happening right now. I’m not really a social media person, I’m not an extrovert. A dramatic increase in the number of followers on my Twitter account occurred within the first four to five days of the invasion.
Can you describe those moments?
Phew, the first days of the invasion. Everything was happening. I had practically no sleep for about fifty or sixty hours. It was crazy…
I remember well how you brought information day and night.
Yes, every hour. But besides writing on Twitter, I had to take care of my loved ones. At the time, my mother was still living in Volnovaš, it cost me a lot of shouting, but luckily I forced her to leave Donbas.
How did it happen?
Just a few hours before the invasion, I forced her to take the last night train to Kiev. It was total chaos in Ukraine, the connections were getting delayed… I begged my mom to come early so I could send her to a safe place while I worked in the city during the battle for Kiev. But of course she didn’t listen to me and left it to the last minute, so I decided that we would leave Kiev together to my girlfriend’s parents in Western Ukraine. In total confusion and crazy traffic jams, we finally made it.
We arrived in a small town on the border with Moldova as far from the war as possible. I woke up at my girlfriend’s parents, where it was comfortable, good food and everyone was smiling. But when I watched what was happening in the rest of the country, how the Russians attacked the Hostomel airport, entered Buch, besieged Kiev, my heart was pounding like crazy, my heart rate was over 200… In the comfort and safety of the Moldovan border, I gradually processed what for the disaster is happening in my native country, and I realized that I have to return to Kyiv. Because if I don’t, if I don’t join my city in this tragic moment, especially if I’m a journalist, I’ll hate myself for the rest of my life. I said to myself, “Feel free to kill me, but I’ll be back.”
When was it?
Day three of the invasion, I think. I didn’t have a driver’s license then, and of course almost nothing went to Kyiv. I had to talk a friend who had a car to take me there. He didn’t want to, but in such crisis situations, people reveal their true selves. Finally, he said to me, “Yeah, we’re going!”
That was when hundreds of thousands of people started following your work on Twitter. And every day it was more and more. Have you thought about it at all?
At one point I saw half a million people following me, the next day it was 700 thousand, then a million. I thought to myself: damn, this is crazy, such huge attention… But in the stress, in the horror and on the emotional roller coaster, you work more like a robot. I was mainly thinking about fulfilling my journalistic duty.
I know you couldn’t count on this and would rather it didn’t happen, but have you ever thought about the contrast that while your country is falling into disaster, you are getting more and more famous?
I’m not sure if you can call it “famous”. As I said, it didn’t happen because of me, it just happened because I found myself in the middle of historical events and next to really dedicated people like me who have the same sense of duty. Neither I nor they are in it for the money or the fame. They do it for their country.
Pavel is the most popular foreign politician in Ukraine
The Czech Republic started and is leading the initiative of many European states to purchase artillery ammunition for your army. How important is it for Ukraine?
More than important. Honestly, it’s colossal. The Czech president announced this plan in February at the Munich security conference amid a vacuum of ammunition supplies for the Ukrainian army. We were in a depression and our artillery almost hopeless, and then Petr Pavel appeared. Am I pronouncing his name right?
Yes, Peter Paul.
The Czech president is widely recognized in Ukraine. He just came in the middle of nowhere and said, “We found half a million artillery shells for you, but we need money.” It sounded incredible. It was like when you are dying of thirst and someone gives you a bottle of chilled water, basically saving you from the worst while giving you the impetus to persevere and keep on living. Petr Pavel was popular with us from the first day of the invasion, also due to the fact that he is a retired general, which is something that Ukrainians value and appreciate. But I would say that now he is the most popular foreign leader among Ukrainians.
Really?
Yes. Recently, we have had a lot of problems with Poland and the United States, so the image of their representatives has worsened. We can only wish that the Czech Republic had a bigger economy and influence in foreign policy, because Ukraine would be much better off with such leadership. When I consider that your Prime Minister Petr Fiala arrived in besieged Kyiv as the first foreign statesman (together with the Prime Ministers of Poland and Slovenia – editor’s note)then many Western military powers, looking at how the Czech Republic or the Baltic countries support us, should be ashamed of how little they do.
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Tags: Interview war Ukraine Ilya Ponomarenko
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