The pro-Russian turn is disastrous, says Budapest’s mayor

You can also listen to the interview in the audio version.

Five years ago, he showed that Viktor Orbán’s Fidesz party was not invincible.

This year, the green Budapest mayor Gergely Karácsony wants to repeat the success in direct elections. According to polls, he has a good chance of winning.

Seznam News spoke with the mayor directly in his office at Budapest City Hall.

“I absolutely refuse to relativize the evil that Russia and Putin are doing,” Karácsony replies when asked about his position on the war in Ukraine and arms supplies to Kiev.

There was also talk of a new competitor in the opposition, which this year will break up the stagnant waters of Hungarian politics.

European history is being written at this time. On which side are the Hungarians? I mean this in the context of Russia’s war in Ukraine. I was surprised to see only two Ukrainian flags here in the city, including one in your office. Compared to Prague, it hit me in the eye. Why is it?

It is very sad what is happening. If we look at Hungarian history, it is similar to Polish or Czech history in that freedom in general has historically always come from the West and oppression from the East, and yet the Hungarian government is actually taking a pro-Russian stance in this crisis.

Before the 2010 election, Orbán himself was very strongly anti-Russian, attacking the ruling left for what he believed to be too lenient towards Putin. He said that he would not be like that, that he would not be a servant of Gazprom, but since then he has managed to completely transform the views of his electorate and now promotes very anti-Western rhetoric and policies.

This is a disastrous decision not only from the point of view of Hungarian history, but above all from the point of view of the future. We should combine the aspect of Hungarian national sovereignty and the aspect of energy independence, since most of our energy comes from Russia, and invest in renewable sources. So it should all be going in a very clear direction, but unfortunately the government has gone in the opposite direction.

What is your opinion on arms deliveries to Ukraine?

This is a very difficult topic that divides the Hungarian public. I kind of understand the point of view of countries that supply Ukraine with weapons, but also of those that don’t. I understand them.

From the government’s point of view, I sort of understand its argument that there is a relatively large Hungarian minority in Ukraine and I understand the complexity, but I absolutely refuse to relativize the evil that Russia and Putin are doing. We should very consistently distinguish between the aggressor and the victim, and the aggressor is Russia, the victim is Ukraine.

Gergely Karácsony

The Czech Minister of Foreign Affairs, Jan Lipavský, was recently in Budapest, who held talks with his counterpart Péter Szijjártó and also with you. Your press conferences were very different. Minister Szijjárto said that one of the goals of the Hungarian presidency in the Council of the EU will be to fight against the decadence of the Union. What role will Budapest play as a metropolis during the presidency?

We are happy that Hungary will have the next European Presidency, but the government did not include us in any actions. So, together with the Spanish and Belgian capitals, we organize our own events (Spain presided last year, now until July Belgium and after that Hungary, editor’s note).

Do you think the June European and municipal elections in Hungary will be free and fair?

They are free and fair only because the opposition parties will not boycott them. But they are not free and fair because Fidesz always wins them. It is very difficult under the current form of the political and media system for an opposition candidate to succeed.

I managed to succeed in Budapest in 2019 and I hope that I can repeat this victory, and that the opposition parties will come out stronger and win the elections in June.

War, migration, gender

How important are these elections for the opposition? You recently said in an interview that there is a possibility that they will eventually lead to a change of government due to the weaker result of Orbán’s Fidesz. Do you think that is really a real possibility? According to the polls, it looks like another win for Fidesz.

These elections are taking place at a time when the government is facing serious crises. President Katalin Nováková recently had to resign, the budget deficit is growing exponentially and Hungary is still without money from EU funds.

A bad election result for Fidesz would intensify these crises and put the ruling party in a much more difficult situation. If Fidesz loses the European elections, early parliamentary elections should be held.

A new player has appeared in Hungarian politics, Péter Magyar, a former member of Fidesz, rather a conservative who now criticizes Orbán, and according to a survey, his Tisza party seems to be the strongest opposition force shortly after its formation. At the same time, he mainly appeals to disappointed voters of the opposition. Aren’t you worried about the Magyar effect?

I personally have nothing to worry about. European and municipal elections in Hungary often rewrite and rearrange the opposition scene, relations and its form. This may be a chance for Magyar, but the real surprise in my opinion will be how bad the result is for Fidesz in the election.

Péter Magyar messed with Hungarian politics

He has already overtaken the opposition in the polls, but he entered politics only in March. Péter Magyar knows the circumstances of Orbán’s system, that’s why we trust him, Seznam Správy heard at the demonstration of supporters of the unexpected opponent Viktor Orbán.

So you are not afraid that Péter Magyar has burst into national politics like a political tornado? It can be seen that it is attracting a lot of attention, people are becoming interested in politics, month by month.

The elections to the European Parliament in 2019 regrouped forces, when the Momentum movement and the Democratic Coalition appeared. The same regrouping happened in 2014 and also in 2009, when the extreme right gained strength. This year may be a chance for Péter Magyar.

I am not a supporter of Péter Magyar, I am a left-wing politician, a Greens politician. But if we consider the national interest, the opposition should come out of the election strengthened. At the same time, the opposition parties compete with each other, which is completely natural.

How has your coexistence, as the mayor of Budapest and an opposition politician with the government, been going for the last five years?

In the last five years, the government has introduced countless measures that have reduced our financial income, but we have managed to keep the city on its feet and develop it. I don’t expect the situation to change fundamentally after June 9, because Budapest’s economy is simply too big in the national context for a Fidesz government to treat as an enemy. Against such a huge economic resource in one’s own country.

37 percent of Hungary’s GDP is generated in Budapest, and it is impossible to be in a constant war with such a significant part of the country.

Fidesz, i.e. your opposition in the council, criticizes you for the city’s financial situation and talks about bankruptcy. You personally from the fact that you are more interested in the position of prime minister than mayorship. What is the truth?

Being the mayor of Budapest is a politically important position for the opposition, I do not plan to exchange it for another and I will support the opposition’s candidate for prime minister.

How is the metropolis dealing with climate change?

Budapest has felt the negative effects of climate change very strongly in recent decades. We have recorded one of the highest increases in average temperature in Europe. The building density is very high, so it cannot be adapted to changing conditions.

We therefore started a radical greening process in recent years, which I want to intensify even more if successful. In the next election period, we want to use the EU funds for climate policy goals, for example, this also applies to housing policy and the preparation of the city for the effects of climate change.

Quite a few homeless people can be seen on the streets of the city center. Has the situation worsened in recent years? How do you solve social problems?

In Hungary and Budapest, there is a rather burning housing crisis, which has led to an increase in homelessness. But homelessness has decreased significantly in the last few years and we have tried to do a lot in this area. We have increased and developed care for homeless people. One of the most important things was to ensure that people who have access to housing do not lose it. We also provide social housing, but it’s a long shot.

Chinese President Xi Jinping is due to visit Hungary soon. In connection with this, there is now talk of Chinese investments in Budapest as well, for example the construction of a railway from the city center to the airport. How do you view Chinese investments?

China’s economic interests in Hungary are very worrying. Of course, China is a major economic power and such a power can be traded and dealt with on a mutually beneficial basis, but currently the agreements are beneficial to China and not to the benefit of Hungary.

This is, for example, the case of the railway from the center of Budapest to the airport. Hungary has its own plans to integrate the connection into its existing rail system, i.e. its own project that can be used to travel to the airport. The Chinese project would be a new parallel structure with no transfer to our rail system.

We want the route to be integrated into our national railway system and people from other cities, not only from the center of Budapest, can get to the airport. I think that the implementation of the Chinese investment borders on the betrayal of national interests.